lkml.org 
[lkml]   [2019]   [Sep]   [14]   [last100]   RSS Feed
Views: [wrap][no wrap]   [headers]  [forward] 
 
Messages in this thread
/
SubjectRe: Linux 5.3-rc8
From
Date
14.09.2019 21:52, Linus Torvalds пишет:
> On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 9:35 AM Alexander E. Patrakov
> <patrakov@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Let me repeat: not -EINVAL, please. Please find some other error code,
>> so that the application could sensibly distinguish between this case
>> (low quality entropy is in the buffer) and the "kernel is too dumb" case
>> (and no entropy is in the buffer).
>
> I'm not convinced we want applications to see that difference.
>
> The fact is, every time an application thinks it cares, it has caused
> problems. I can just see systemd saying "ok, the kernel didn't block,
> so I'll just do
>
> while (getrandom(x) == -ENOENTROPY)
> sleep(1);
>
> instead. Which is still completely buggy garbage.

OK, I understand this viewpoint. But then still, -EINVAL is not the
answer, because a hypothetical evil version of systemd will use -EINVAL
as -ENOENTROPY (with flags == 0 and a reasonable buffer size, there is
simply no other reason for the kernel to return -EINVAL). Yes I
understand that this is a complete reverse of my previous argument.

> The fact is, we can't guarantee entropy in general. It's probably
> there is practice, particularly with user space saving randomness from
> last boot etc, but that kind of data may be real entropy, but the
> kernel cannot *guarantee* that it is.
>
> And people don't like us guaranteeing that rdrand/rdseed is "real
> entropy" either, since they don't trust the CPU hw either.
>
> Which means that we're all kinds of screwed. The whole "we guarantee
> entropy" model is broken.

I agree here. Given that you suggested "to just fill the buffer and
return 0" in the previous mail (well, I think you really meant "return
buflen", otherwise ENOENTROPY == 0 and your previous objection applies),
let's do just that. As a bonus, it saves applications from the complex
dance with retrying via /dev/urandom and finally brings a reliable API
(modulo old and broken kernels) to get random numbers (well, as random
as possible right now) without needing a file descriptor.

--
Alexander E. Patrakov

[unhandled content-type:application/pkcs7-signature]
\
 
 \ /
  Last update: 2019-09-14 19:10    [W:0.218 / U:0.888 seconds]
©2003-2020 Jasper Spaans|hosted at Digital Ocean and TransIP|Read the blog|Advertise on this site