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SubjectRe: [PATCH] percpu-refcount: relax limit on percpu_ref_reinit()
Hello, Ming.

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 10:51:49AM +0800, Ming Lei wrote:
> > That doesn't make sense to me. How is synchronize_rcu() gonna change
> > anything there?
>
> As you saw in the new post, synchronize_rcu() isn't used for avoiding
> the race. Instead, it is done by grabbing one extra ref on atomic part.

This is layering violation. It just isn't a good idea to depend on
percpu_ref internal implementation details like this.

> > 1. Callers of percpu_ref must not depend on what internal
> > synchronization construct percpu_ref uses. Again, percpu_ref
> > doesn't even use regular RCU.
> >
> > 2. If there is already an outer RCU protection around ref operation,
> > that RCU critical section can and should be used for
> > synchronization, not percpu_ref.
>
> I guess the above doesn't apply any more because there isn't new
> synchronize_rcu() introduced in my new post.

It still does. The problem is that what you're doing creates
dependencies on percpu_ref's implementation details - how it
guarantees the mode transition visibility using what sort of
synchronization construct.

> > Right? There isn't much wheel to reinvent here and using percpu_ref
> > for the above is likely already incorrect due to the different RCU
> > type being used.
>
> No RCU story any more, :-)
>
> It might work, but still a reinvented wheel since perpcu-refcount does
> provide same function. Not mention the inter-action between the two
> mechanism may have to be considered.

Why would the two independent mechanisms interact with each other?
What's problematic is entangling two mechanisms in an implementation
dependent way.

> Also there is still cost introduced in WRITER side, and the
> synchronize_rcu() often takes a bit long, especially there might be lots
> of namespaces, each need to run one synchronize_rcu(). We have learned
> lessons in converting to blk-mq for scsi, in which synchronize_rcu()
> introduces long delay in booting.

You're already paying that latency. It's not like percpu_ref can make
it happen magically without paying the same cost. You also can easily
overlay the two grace periods as the percpu_ref part can be
asynchronous (if you still care about it). But, from what I've read
till now, it doesn't even look like you'd need to do anything with
percpu_ref if you all you need to do is shutting down issue of new
commands.

Thanks.

--
tejun

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